USA never lost against the Taliban

[Vincent]

I wanted to add something about my recent thread about Israel, where I mentioned that Afghanistan was a huge humiliation for USA. Some may have misunderstood what I said and thought that I meant that USA lost against the Taliban.

But that is actually not what happened and I think it is important to understand what happened from a military and strategic perspective. The US army never lost against the taliban.

In fact, the US armies losses are estimated at 1,900 and Taliban losses are erstimated at 25k to 50k.
That is around 12-25 dead Taliban fighters for each US army soldier. So from those numbers we can see that the US army decimated the Taliban in almost every battle they fought. Now obviously Taliban would try to avoid open battle when possible because they knew they would lose it, but if they had to engage in it they would lose.

What actually happened is that the Afghan National Security Forces lost against the Taliban. The government which USA installed in Afghanistan lost against the Taliban.

Afghan National Security Forces killed:
~66,000 (according to U.S. and UN estimates)

Afghan National Security Forces were completely incompetent, corrupt and undisciplined - in contrast to the US army. So they lost against the Taliban. US army won against Taliban almost every battle. (Obviously, since they were way more disciplined, better equipped and trained.)

There is many documentaries about Afghan National Security Forces incompetence, this is just one of them:


I also believe the outcome would likely have been very different if the Taliban hadn’t had Pakistan as a dependable safe haven to retreat to. This is likely why in Iraq, USA was able to install another regime, while they failed in Afghanistan.

[Darth_aurelius]

I wanted to add something about my recent thread about Israel, where I mentioned that Afghanistan was a huge humiliation for USA. Some may have misunderstood what I said and thought that I meant that USA lost against the Taliban.

But that is actually not what happened and I think it is important to understand what happened from a military and strategic perspective. The US army never lost against the taliban.

In fact, the US armies losses are estimated at 1,900 and Taliban losses are erstimated at 25k to 50k.
That is around 12-25 dead Taliban fighters for each US army soldier. So from those numbers we can see that the US army decimated the Taliban in almost every battle they fought. Now obviously Taliban would try to avoid open battle when possible because they knew they would lose it, but if they had to engage in it they would lose.

What actually happened is that the Afghan National Security Forces lost against the Taliban. The government which USA installed in Afghanistan lost against the Taliban.

Afghan National Security Forces killed:
~66,000 (according to U.S. and UN estimates)

Afghan National Security Forced were completely incompetent, corrupt and undisciplined - in contrast to the US army. So they lost against the Taliban. US army won against Taliban almost every battle. (Obviously, since they were way more disciplined, better equipped and trained.)

I also believe the outcome would likely have been very different if the Taliban hadn’t had Pakistan as a dependable safe haven to retreat to. This is likely why in Iraq, USA was able to install another regime, while they failed in Afghanistan.

To take your points in reverse order, the geopolitical, domestic security and theological context in Iraq was far different than in Afghanistan and the US was primarily able to exploit the Sunni-Shia dichotomy there to its own advantage.

Afghanistan has historically been an unconquerable land and one need only reflect upon the many attempts by foreign invaders which all catastrophically failed to confirm this point. From the exploits of Alexander the Great in what was then known as Sogdia and Bactria where he failed to subdue the tribes, to the misadventures of the British to the enormous losses incurred by the Soviet Armed Forces in the 80's, the land, its terrain, topography, geography and especially its people are resilient and extremely difficult to subdue.

The US strategic objectives in Afghanistan were not accomplished despite the greater numbers of casualties that it inflicted upon the Taliban and as such, we should rightfully regard this as a loss in the annals of American adventurism and imperialism.

Incidentally, I am going to be recommending you for promotion to the ILM in about 20 minutes during our weekly staff briefing on element so I am pleased to see such consistent activity from you here on the forums.

[rever]

I wanted to add something about my recent thread about Israel, where I mentioned that Afghanistan was a huge humiliation for USA. Some may have misunderstood what I said and thought that I meant that USA lost against the Taliban.

But that is actually not what happened and I think it is important to understand what happened from a military and strategic perspective. The US army never lost against the taliban.

In fact, the US armies losses are estimated at 1,900 and Taliban losses are erstimated at 25k to 50k.
That is around 12-25 dead Taliban fighters for each US army soldier. So from those numbers we can see that the US army decimated the Taliban in almost every battle they fought. Now obviously Taliban would try to avoid open battle when possible because they knew they would lose it, but if they had to engage in it they would lose.

What actually happened is that the Afghan National Security Forces lost against the Taliban. The government which USA installed in Afghanistan lost against the Taliban.

Afghan National Security Forces killed:
~66,000 (according to U.S. and UN estimates)

Afghan National Security Forced were completely incompetent, corrupt and undisciplined - in contrast to the US army. So they lost against the Taliban. US army won against Taliban almost every battle. (Obviously, since they were way more disciplined, better equipped and trained.)

I also believe the outcome would likely have been very different if the Taliban hadn’t had Pakistan as a dependable safe haven to retreat to. This is likely why in Iraq, USA was able to install another regime, while they failed in Afghanistan.

To take your points in reverse order, the geopolitical, domestic security and theological context in Iraq was far different than in Afghanistan and the US was primarily able to exploit the Sunni-Shia dichotomy there to its own advantage.

Afghanistan has historically been an unconquerable land and one need only reflect upon the many attempts by foreign invaders which all catastrophically failed to confirm this point. From the exploits of Alexander the Great in what was then known as Sogdia and Bactria where he failed to subdue the tribes, to the misadventures of the British to the enormous losses incurred by the Soviet Armed Forces in the 80's, the land, its terrain, topography, geography and especially its people are resilient and extremely difficult to subdue.

The US strategic objectives in Afghanistan were not accomplished despite the greater numbers of casualties that it inflicted upon the Taliban and as such, we should rightfully regard this as a loss in the annals of American adventurism and imperialism.

Incidentally, I am going to be recommending you for promotion to the ILM in about 20 minutes during our weekly staff briefing on element so I am pleased to see such consistent activity from you here on the forums.

Alexander failed to conquer but the tribes also failed to remove him from the lands so they compromised by letting Alexander marry the tribe chief's dughters

[Darth_aurelius]

I wanted to add something about my recent thread about Israel, where I mentioned that Afghanistan was a huge humiliation for USA. Some may have misunderstood what I said and thought that I meant that USA lost against the Taliban.

But that is actually not what happened and I think it is important to understand what happened from a military and strategic perspective. The US army never lost against the taliban.

In fact, the US armies losses are estimated at 1,900 and Taliban losses are erstimated at 25k to 50k.
That is around 12-25 dead Taliban fighters for each US army soldier. So from those numbers we can see that the US army decimated the Taliban in almost every battle they fought. Now obviously Taliban would try to avoid open battle when possible because they knew they would lose it, but if they had to engage in it they would lose.

What actually happened is that the Afghan National Security Forces lost against the Taliban. The government which USA installed in Afghanistan lost against the Taliban.

Afghan National Security Forces killed:
~66,000 (according to U.S. and UN estimates)

Afghan National Security Forced were completely incompetent, corrupt and undisciplined - in contrast to the US army. So they lost against the Taliban. US army won against Taliban almost every battle. (Obviously, since they were way more disciplined, better equipped and trained.)

I also believe the outcome would likely have been very different if the Taliban hadn’t had Pakistan as a dependable safe haven to retreat to. This is likely why in Iraq, USA was able to install another regime, while they failed in Afghanistan.

To take your points in reverse order, the geopolitical, domestic security and theological context in Iraq was far different than in Afghanistan and the US was primarily able to exploit the Sunni-Shia dichotomy there to its own advantage.

Afghanistan has historically been an unconquerable land and one need only reflect upon the many attempts by foreign invaders which all catastrophically failed to confirm this point. From the exploits of Alexander the Great in what was then known as Sogdia and Bactria where he failed to subdue the tribes, to the misadventures of the British to the enormous losses incurred by the Soviet Armed Forces in the 80's, the land, its terrain, topography, geography and especially its people are resilient and extremely difficult to subdue.

The US strategic objectives in Afghanistan were not accomplished despite the greater numbers of casualties that it inflicted upon the Taliban and as such, we should rightfully regard this as a loss in the annals of American adventurism and imperialism.

Incidentally, I am going to be recommending you for promotion to the ILM in about 20 minutes during our weekly staff briefing on element so I am pleased to see such consistent activity from you here on the forums.

Alexander failed to conquer but the tribes also failed to remove him from the lands so they compromised by letting Alexander marry the tribe chief's dughters

That is true but he also knew that it was a shrewd alliance since Roxana came from a region that was notoriously difficult to consolidate control over and that a diplomatic marriage would help to ameliorate the animosity of those tenacious and restless peoples. But regardless, Afghanistan continues to live up to its reputation as the graveyard of empires, much to the credit of the glorious Mujahedeen in this era.