International Brotherhood of Men

Sumzero wrote: 20 Dec 2025, 16:24 Around 1,400 years ago, when the Qur’an was revealed, it contained knowledge that modern science only confirmed much later. For example, the Prophet Muhammad ﷺ stated that the human body contains 360 joints:
“Indeed, each human being has three hundred and sixty joints.” (Sahih Muslim) Modern anatomy only confirmed this in the late 20th century.

thanks chatgpt (anyone can find this online by using google)
Yes—there are **pre-Islamic** examples of the “360” motif, though it shows up in **different forms** (sometimes **bones**, sometimes **joints**, and often with a symbolic link to the calendar/cosmos).

* **Ancient Indian (Ayurvedic) literature**: Some classical texts (and later summaries of them) state the body has **360 bones** (often **counting teeth, nails, etc.** as “bones” in their system). For example, the *Charaka Saṃhitā* tradition is commonly summarized this way. ([carakasamhitaonline.com][1])
The *Suśruta Saṃhitā* is also discussed in modern scholarship in terms of large bone counts in that tradition (with different totals depending on what’s included). ([PMC][2])

* **Ancient Chinese cosmological/medical ideas**: There are scholarly discussions of a correspondence between the human body and cosmic measures, including references to **“360 joints”** tied to the circle/sky (e.g., 360 degrees). ([JSTOR][3])

So, in plain terms: **the number “360” attached to the human body definitely predates Islam in other cultures**, even if the *exact* thing being counted (bones vs. joints, and what “counts” as one) differs across traditions. ([carakasamhitaonline.com][1])

[1]: https://www.carakasamhitaonline.com/ind ... hatgpt.com "Sharira Sankhya Sharira - Charak Samhita"
[2]: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/P ... hatgpt.com "Anatomy in ancient India: a focus on the Susruta Samhita - PMC"
[3]: https://www.jstor.org/stable/1177830?ut ... hatgpt.com "The Chinese Geomancer As Alchemist and Cosmic Pivot"

Sumzero wrote: 20 Dec 2025, 16:24 The holy koran also describes in detail the embriotic process, something near impossible to know with the technology of the time

source

Sumzero wrote: 20 Dec 2025, 16:24 Additionally, scholars noted that the Qur’an mentions land and water in repetition, and when the number of occurrences of the word land is divided by the total of land + sea, the resulting percentage closely matches the Earth’s actual land-to-water ratio of 71% ocean, 29% land

what a retarded way to transport that message, instead of just saying it's 71% ocean and 29% land.
But ok, let's assume this is true. I wanna see the full calculation.

Please give me:
1. Link to Online source which I can search through to confirm the claim (there is slightly different versions of quaran so i need to know which one)
2. The first, exact word to search for (land in arabic? how would that be called)?
3. So then we have a number x, the amount of occurrences of the word land.
4. The second, exact word to search for (water in arabic? how would that be called)?
5. Then you wanna divide the first number by the first and second number
I just noticed that you won't even get any percentage that way.

Number of occurrences of "land" : ("land" + "sea") = "resulting percentage that closely matches the Earth’s actual land-to-water ratio of 71% ocean, 29% land"

So, if you divide a smaller number by a bigger number, you don't get a percentage, you get something like 0.65 for example. And I don't think that is what you meant. Ok, let's assume you forgot to say, you need to multiply that by 100.

So then we have

Number of words of "land" : ("land" + "sea") x 100 = "resulting percentage that closely matches the Earth’s actual land-to-water ratio of 71% ocean, 29% land"

Now you don't specify which percentage it will be. Land? Water? Pick whichever you want?
And why are we even dividing by land and water?

If you can give me all this, and the math actually works out, I will convert to Islam. But if you can't, then you're a little dummy dummy. Deal?

And don't just give me some link. Provide me all the details I asked for, please.

Vincent wrote: 21 Dec 2025, 08:29

Sumzero wrote: 20 Dec 2025, 16:24 Around 1,400 years ago, when the Qur’an was revealed, it contained knowledge that modern science only confirmed much later. For example, the Prophet Muhammad ﷺ stated that the human body contains 360 joints:
“Indeed, each human being has three hundred and sixty joints.” (Sahih Muslim) Modern anatomy only confirmed this in the late 20th century.

thanks chatgpt (anyone can find this online by using google)
Yes—there are **pre-Islamic** examples of the “360” motif, though it shows up in **different forms** (sometimes **bones**, sometimes **joints**, and often with a symbolic link to the calendar/cosmos).

* **Ancient Indian (Ayurvedic) literature**: Some classical texts (and later summaries of them) state the body has **360 bones** (often **counting teeth, nails, etc.** as “bones” in their system). For example, the *Charaka Saṃhitā* tradition is commonly summarized this way. ([carakasamhitaonline.com][1])
The *Suśruta Saṃhitā* is also discussed in modern scholarship in terms of large bone counts in that tradition (with different totals depending on what’s included). ([PMC][2])

* **Ancient Chinese cosmological/medical ideas**: There are scholarly discussions of a correspondence between the human body and cosmic measures, including references to **“360 joints”** tied to the circle/sky (e.g., 360 degrees). ([JSTOR][3])

So, in plain terms: **the number “360” attached to the human body definitely predates Islam in other cultures**, even if the *exact* thing being counted (bones vs. joints, and what “counts” as one) differs across traditions. ([carakasamhitaonline.com][1])

[1]: https://www.carakasamhitaonline.com/ind ... hatgpt.com "Sharira Sankhya Sharira - Charak Samhita"
[2]: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/P ... hatgpt.com "Anatomy in ancient India: a focus on the Susruta Samhita - PMC"
[3]: https://www.jstor.org/stable/1177830?ut ... hatgpt.com "The Chinese Geomancer As Alchemist and Cosmic Pivot"

Sumzero wrote: 20 Dec 2025, 16:24 The holy koran also describes in detail the embriotic process, something near impossible to know with the technology of the time

source

Sumzero wrote: 20 Dec 2025, 16:24 Additionally, scholars noted that the Qur’an mentions land and water in repetition, and when the number of occurrences of the word land is divided by the total of land + sea, the resulting percentage closely matches the Earth’s actual land-to-water ratio of 71% ocean, 29% land

what a retarded way to transport that message, instead of just saying it's 71% ocean and 29% land.
But ok, let's assume this is true. I wanna see the full calculation.

Please give me:
1. Link to Online source which I can search through to confirm the claim (there is slightly different versions of quaran so i need to know which one)
2. The first, exact word to search for (land in arabic? how would that be called)?
3. So then we have a number x, the amount of occurrences of the word land.
4. The second, exact word to search for (water in arabic? how would that be called)?
5. Then you wanna divide the first number by the first and second number
I just noticed that you won't even get any percentage that way.

Number of occurrences of "land" : ("land" + "sea") = "resulting percentage that closely matches the Earth’s actual land-to-water ratio of 71% ocean, 29% land"

So, if you divide a smaller number by a bigger number, you don't get a percentage, you get something like 0.65 for example. And I don't think that is what you meant. Ok, let's assume you forgot to say, you need to multiply that by 100.

So then we have

Number of words of "land" : ("land" + "sea") x 100 = "resulting percentage that closely matches the Earth’s actual land-to-water ratio of 71% ocean, 29% land"

Now you don't specify which percentage it will be. Land? Water? Pick whichever you want?
And why are we even dividing by land and water?

If you can give me all this, and the math actually works out, I will convert to Islam. But if you can't, then you're a little dummy dummy. Deal?

And don't just give me some link. Provide me all the details I asked for, please.

Vincent wrote: 21 Dec 2025, 08:29

Sumzero wrote: 20 Dec 2025, 16:24 The holy koran also describes in detail the embriotic process, something near impossible to know with the technology of the time

source

the source is the holy koran retard I said it right there in the quote, I can find the exact aya if ur too lazy

Surah Al-Mu’minun (23:12–14)
English (Sahih International):

“And We certainly created man from an extract of clay.
Then We placed him as a drop of fluid (nutfah) in a secure place.
Then We made the drop into a clinging form (‘alaqah), and We made the clinging form into a chewed-like lump (mudghah).
Then We made the lump into bones, and We clothed the bones with flesh;
then We produced him as another creation. So blessed is Allah, the Best of creators.”

Key Terms Explained
Nutfah – a drop of fluid (fertilized fluid)
‘Alaqah – something that clings or hangs (often compared to implantation in the womb)
Mudghah – a chewed-like lump (describes the embryo’s early segmented appearance)
Bones clothed with flesh – skeletal structure forming before musculature
Another creation – many scholars interpret this as ensoulment or the transition to a distinctly human form

Why Muslims cite these verses
These verses were revealed over 1,400 years ago, long before microscopes or modern embryology, yet they describe distinct developmental stages in sequence, which many Muslims see as a sign of divine knowledge.

--------

Vincent wrote: 21 Dec 2025, 08:29 Please give me:
1. Link to Online source which I can search through to confirm the claim (there is slightly different versions of quaran so i need to know which one)
2. The first, exact word to search for (land in arabic? how would that be called)?
3. So then we have a number x, the amount of occurrences of the word land.
4. The second, exact word to search for (water in arabic? how would that be called)?
5. Then you wanna divide the first number by the first and second number
I just noticed that you won't even get any percentage that way.

"

The Claim Itself
According to commonly cited counts:
The word “land” (Arabic: البر / al-barr or الأرض / al-arḍ) is counted 13 times

The word “water” (Arabic: الماء / al-mā’) is counted 32 times

Total:
13 (land) + 32 (water) = 45

Percentages:
Water: 32 ÷ 45 ≈ 71.11%
Land: 13 ÷ 45 ≈ 28.89%

Modern scientific measurements:
Water on Earth ≈ 71%
Land on Earth ≈ 29%

The numbers align remarkably closely.
in fact if you add the 0.11 from water number to the 0.89 from the land number it becomes exact
--------

as for your demands:
1. the source is again the holy koran, no there are not "slightly different versions of the koran" that is actually the entire point of the religion. I am talking about the original arabic alkoran non translated, there is one exact version used by all scholars and institutions.
here is one of the many links you can find online for the original alkoran. Just search for the arabic words I have mentioned before: https://quran.com/pt

2. The word “land” (Arabic: البر / al-barr or الأرض / al-arḍ)

3. is counted 13 times

4. The word “water” (Arabic: الماء / al-mā’)

5. is counted 32 times, I already posted the exact calculation above

-------

Vincent wrote: 21 Dec 2025, 08:29 If you can give me all this, and the math actually works out, I will convert to Islam. But if you can't, then you're a little dummy dummy. Deal?

I don't belive you.
Even if the alkoran mentioned your full first and last name exactly and had an exact picture of your face you would make a convoluted justification. Actually this is talked about in our religion:

Qur’an – Surah Al-Baqarah (2:6–7)
“Indeed, those who disbelieve — it is the same for them whether you warn them or do not warn them — they will not believe.
Allah has set a seal upon their hearts and upon their hearing, and over their vision is a veil. And for them is a great punishment.”

couldnt care less if you converted or not, I hear the climate in hell is very warm this time of year

Sumzero wrote: 20 Dec 2025, 16:24 The Claim Itself
According to commonly cited counts:
The word “land” (Arabic: البر / al-barr or الأرض / al-arḍ) is counted 13 times

The word “water” (Arabic: الماء / al-mā’) is counted 32 times

Total:
13 (land) + 32 (water) = 45

Percentages:
Water: 32 ÷ 45 ≈ 71.11%
Land: 13 ÷ 45 ≈ 28.89%

Modern scientific measurements:
Water on Earth ≈ 71%
Land on Earth ≈ 29%

The numbers align remarkably closely.
in fact if you add the 0.11 from water number to the 0.89 from the land number it becomes exact
--------

as for your demands:
1. the source is again the holy koran, no there are not "slightly different versions of the koran" that is actually the entire point of the religion. I am talking about the original arabic alkoran non translated, there is one exact version used by all scholars and institutions.
here is one of the many links you can find online for the original alkoran. Just search for the arabic words I have mentioned before: https://quran.com/pt

2. The word “land” (Arabic: البر / al-barr or الأرض / al-arḍ)

3. is counted 13 times

4. The word “water” (Arabic: الماء / al-mā’)

5. is counted 32 times, I already posted the exact calculation above

I just went to https://quran.com/ and searched for the word "البر". Result is 95 search results, not 13.
But I just saw that someone else already did the work.

According to muslims, the word land appears 13 times in the entire Qur’an! If you can, please go to this quran website. Search for the word “الأرض” or Al 'Ard meaning Earth/Land . It will appear 436 times in the Qur’an!

https://www.quranwow.com/#/search

https://corpus.quran.com/qurandictionary.jsp?q=ArD

If you search for the word land in Arabic on searchtruth.com, it will come as this: The Arabic word(s) “Ared” or in Eng as “land” appears in 461 verses in the Qur’an. Depend of the translation:

1.In Mohsin Khan's translation, the word land appears 136 times.

2.In Yusuf Ali's translation, it appears 108 times.

3.In Muhammad H. Shakir's translation, it appears 124 times.

4 .In Muhammad Pickthall's translation, it appears 125 times.

The reason that the total count of land word is not same when you search for it Arabic “Ared” or in english as “Land” because its the same word some time is used as “EARTH” ,and some time as “LAND” but both are one word in Arabic, and translators use either word in their translation. The word earth as example appear 423 time(s) in Yusuf Ali translation.

So how did Mr. Harun come up with the number 13? According to Muslims, they’ve counted the word 13 times only! What about the word “sea” its pronounced as “ Ba'her” According to the Muslim claim If we search for the word “land sea” in in English:

In Yusuf Ali’s translation, the word “sea” appears 27 times in 27 verses in the Qur’an.

In Muhammad H. Shakir’s translation, the word “sea” appears 38 time but its a wrong translation Shakir” translated many words wrong when its not as we read here:

“Until when he reached the place where the sun set, he found it going down into a black sea, and found by it a people. We said: O Zulqarnain! either give them a chastisement or do them a benefit. (Qur'an18:86)

As we read in the translation of Yusuf Ali the word sea disappear: “Until, when he reached the setting of the sun, he found it set in a spring of murky water: Near it he found a People: We said: "O Zul-qarnain! (thou hast authority,) either to punish them, or to treat them with kindness." -quran 18:86

But the truth is there is no word sea in that verse, instead it contains the word dark mud(hami'atin) which is not the word sea(Ba'her)

https://corpus.quran.com/wordmorphology ... (18:86:10)

https://corpus.quran.com/qurandictionar ... (18:86:10)"

Vincent wrote: 21 Dec 2025, 08:29 If you can give me all this, and the math actually works out, I will convert to Islam. But if you can't, then you're a little dummy dummy. Deal?

Sumzero wrote: 20 Dec 2025, 16:24 I don't belive you.
Even if the alkoran mentioned your full first and last name exactly and had an exact picture of your face you would make a convoluted justification. Actually this is talked about in our religion:

Qur’an – Surah Al-Baqarah (2:6–7)
“Indeed, those who disbelieve — it is the same for them whether you warn them or do not warn them — they will not believe.
Allah has set a seal upon their hearts and upon their hearing, and over their vision is a veil. And for them is a great punishment.”

couldnt care less if you converted or not, I hear the climate in hell is very warm this time of year

"So goys, in case someone says me religion bad, they are bad mkey? And THEIR SOUL WILL BURN IN HELL FOREVER. So don't listen to them mkey? Now go fight for me my little minions, if you die you go to heaven remember. But only if you fight for me. Yes, I can have 13 bitches and you can only have 4, Allah said so. Also, in case anyone ever talks about certain amounts of times a word appears in Quran, just believe it mkey? Please don't actually go and count the word because if you do, it means you doubt, and if you doubt you bad and you go to HELL FOREVER!! AND THEN NO BITCHES! BECAUSE ONLY IN HEAVEN YOU GET BITCHES, IF YOU FIGHT FOR ME!"

I wish this would still work. I also wanna get bitches and get rich and powerful that way. I wanna make my own religion, where Allah only talks through me, personally.

Vincent wrote: 24 Dec 2025, 01:18

Sumzero wrote: 20 Dec 2025, 16:24 The Claim Itself
According to commonly cited counts:
The word “land” (Arabic: البر / al-barr or الأرض / al-arḍ) is counted 13 times

The word “water” (Arabic: الماء / al-mā’) is counted 32 times

Total:
13 (land) + 32 (water) = 45

Percentages:
Water: 32 ÷ 45 ≈ 71.11%
Land: 13 ÷ 45 ≈ 28.89%

Modern scientific measurements:
Water on Earth ≈ 71%
Land on Earth ≈ 29%

The numbers align remarkably closely.
in fact if you add the 0.11 from water number to the 0.89 from the land number it becomes exact
--------

as for your demands:
1. the source is again the holy koran, no there are not "slightly different versions of the koran" that is actually the entire point of the religion. I am talking about the original arabic alkoran non translated, there is one exact version used by all scholars and institutions.
here is one of the many links you can find online for the original alkoran. Just search for the arabic words I have mentioned before: https://quran.com/pt

2. The word “land” (Arabic: البر / al-barr or الأرض / al-arḍ)

3. is counted 13 times

4. The word “water” (Arabic: الماء / al-mā’)

5. is counted 32 times, I already posted the exact calculation above

I just went to https://quran.com/ and searched for the word "البر". Result is 95 search results, not 13.
But I just saw that someone else already did the work.

According to muslims, the word land appears 13 times in the entire Qur’an! If you can, please go to this quran website. Search for the word “الأرض” or Al 'Ard meaning Earth/Land . It will appear 436 times in the Qur’an!

https://www.quranwow.com/#/search

https://corpus.quran.com/qurandictionary.jsp?q=ArD

If you search for the word land in Arabic on searchtruth.com, it will come as this: The Arabic word(s) “Ared” or in Eng as “land” appears in 461 verses in the Qur’an. Depend of the translation:

1.In Mohsin Khan's translation, the word land appears 136 times.

2.In Yusuf Ali's translation, it appears 108 times.

3.In Muhammad H. Shakir's translation, it appears 124 times.

4 .In Muhammad Pickthall's translation, it appears 125 times.

The reason that the total count of land word is not same when you search for it Arabic “Ared” or in english as “Land” because its the same word some time is used as “EARTH” ,and some time as “LAND” but both are one word in Arabic, and translators use either word in their translation. The word earth as example appear 423 time(s) in Yusuf Ali translation.

So how did Mr. Harun come up with the number 13? According to Muslims, they’ve counted the word 13 times only! What about the word “sea” its pronounced as “ Ba'her” According to the Muslim claim If we search for the word “land sea” in in English:

In Yusuf Ali’s translation, the word “sea” appears 27 times in 27 verses in the Qur’an.

In Muhammad H. Shakir’s translation, the word “sea” appears 38 time but its a wrong translation Shakir” translated many words wrong when its not as we read here:

“Until when he reached the place where the sun set, he found it going down into a black sea, and found by it a people. We said: O Zulqarnain! either give them a chastisement or do them a benefit. (Qur'an18:86)

As we read in the translation of Yusuf Ali the word sea disappear: “Until, when he reached the setting of the sun, he found it set in a spring of murky water: Near it he found a People: We said: "O Zul-qarnain! (thou hast authority,) either to punish them, or to treat them with kindness." -quran 18:86

But the truth is there is no word sea in that verse, instead it contains the word dark mud(hami'atin) which is not the word sea(Ba'her)

https://corpus.quran.com/wordmorphology ... (18:86:10)

https://corpus.quran.com/qurandictionar ... (18:86:10)"

Vincent wrote: 21 Dec 2025, 08:29 If you can give me all this, and the math actually works out, I will convert to Islam. But if you can't, then you're a little dummy dummy. Deal?

Sumzero wrote: 20 Dec 2025, 16:24 I don't belive you.
Even if the alkoran mentioned your full first and last name exactly and had an exact picture of your face you would make a convoluted justification. Actually this is talked about in our religion:

Qur’an – Surah Al-Baqarah (2:6–7)
“Indeed, those who disbelieve — it is the same for them whether you warn them or do not warn them — they will not believe.
Allah has set a seal upon their hearts and upon their hearing, and over their vision is a veil. And for them is a great punishment.”

couldnt care less if you converted or not, I hear the climate in hell is very warm this time of year

"So goys, in case someone says me religion bad, they are bad mkey? And THEIR SOUL WILL BURN IN HELL FOREVER. So don't listen to them mkey? Now go fight for me my little minions, if you die you go to heaven remember. But only if you fight for me. Yes, I can have 13 bitches and you can only have 4, Allah said so. Also, in case anyone ever talks about certain amounts of times a word appears in Quran, just believe it mkey? Please don't actually go and count the word because if you do, it means you doubt, and if you doubt you bad and you go to HELL FOREVER!! AND THEN NO BITCHES! BECAUSE ONLY IN HEAVEN YOU GET BITCHES, IF YOU FIGHT FOR ME!"

I wish this would still work. I also wanna get bitches and get rich and powerful that way. I wanna make my own religion, where Allah only talks through me, personally.

HAHAHA of course reddit

The Refutation:


----------

1. The core mistake in the criticism
The criticism attacks a claim that serious Muslim scholars do not make.

They assume the claim clarifies as:
“The Qur’an says ‘land’ 13 times total”

That is not the claim.


The actual claim is much narrower and more specific:
The specific word البر (al-barr) occurs 13 times,
and the specific word الماء (al-māʾ) occurs 32 times,
across the entire Qur’an.

-------

They instead searched for الأرض (al-arḍ) — a different word with a different meaning and usage.
That is a category error, not a refutation.

2. Arabic matters: الأرض ≠ البر
In Arabic, “land” is not one word.

Two different Qur’anic terms:
Word Meaning Usage
الأرض (al-arḍ) Earth / ground / territory / world Very broad
البر (al-barr) Dry land (as opposed to sea) Geographical contrast

This distinction is not modern apologetics — it exists in:
Classical Arabic
Classical tafsir
Classical dictionaries (Lisān al-Arab, Lane)

Example Qur’anic contrast:
“He is the One who enables you to travel on land (البر) and sea (البحر)”
(Qur’an 10:22)

Here, البر explicitly means dry land vs sea, which is exactly the concept used in the land–water ratio discussion.
So counting الأرض (Earth/world/soil) instead of البر (dry land) is methodologically wrong.

3. Counting “الأرض” destroys the ratio — and why that’s expected

The critic says:

“الأرض appears 436+ times!”
Yes, and that’s irrelevant.

Why?

Because:
الأرض refers to:

1 The planet

2 Soil

3 A region

4 The worldly realm

-----

Moral metaphors (“corruption on earth”)
It is not a hydrological term.

If you count every mention of “world” or “ground” and expect a land–sea ratio, you misunderstand the claim entirely.
This is like saying:
“Why count ‘continent’ instead of ‘planet’?”

They are different semantic categories.

---------

4. What about “sea” (بحر)?

Again, precision matters.

The land/water claim does NOT use:

بحر (sea)

It uses:

الماء (water)

-----

Why?

Because:
Water ≠ sea

Water includes:

Rain
Rivers
Springs
Seas
Drinking water

--------

The Qur’an speaks constantly about water as the substance of life, not merely oceans.

So arguing:

“Sea appears X times in Yusuf Ali’s translation”
is attacking a straw man.


The claim is about الماء, not بحر.

--------

5. Translation-based counting is invalid

The Redditard repeatedly relies on:

English translations
Translator word choices

This is a fatal methodological flaw.
Why?

Because:
Arabic has one word
English translators choose:
earth / land / world / ground

Translators disagree
That’s why counts differ between:

Yusuf Ali
Pickthall
Shakir

-------

No serious linguistic analysis counts translations instead of the original Arabic.


Muslims explicitly state:
The count is done in Arabic, not English.
So translation statistics prove nothing.

-------

6. Qur’an 18:86 and the “sea” accusation

The Redditor is correct on one narrow point, but it actually hurts their argument.

They say:
Shakir wrongly translated “spring of murky water” as “sea”


Correct.


Arabic word in 18:86:
حَمِئَةٍ (ḥami’ah) = muddy / dark
There is no بحر (sea) there.

But this proves:

Translation errors exist
Counting translations is unreliable

Which reinforces the Muslim position:

Counts must be done in Arabic, not English translations
So this criticism backfires.

--------

7. How did “13” actually come about?

It comes from counting البر (al-barr) — dry land — across the Qur’an.

Not:
الأرض

English “land”

-------


Metaphorical usages

This is why critics are confused:
they are counting the wrong word.

-------

8. The honest Muslim conclusion

The criticism fails because it:

1 Uses the wrong Arabic word

2 Uses translations instead of Arabic

3 Attacks a claim Muslims aren’t making

The land–water ratio depends on selective word choice

--------------

Vincent wrote: 24 Dec 2025, 01:18 I wish this would still work. I also wanna get bitches and get rich and powerful that way. I wanna make my own religion, where Allah only talks through me, personally.

ok good luck lil bud

Sumzero wrote: 24 Dec 2025, 09:29 HAHAHA of course reddit

The Refutation:


----------

1. The core mistake in the criticism
The criticism attacks a claim that serious Muslim scholars do not make.

They assume the claim clarifies as:
“The Qur’an says ‘land’ 13 times total”

That is not the claim.


The actual claim is much narrower and more specific:
The specific word البر (al-barr) occurs 13 times,
and the specific word الماء (al-māʾ) occurs 32 times,
across the entire Qur’an.

-------

They instead searched for الأرض (al-arḍ) — a different word with a different meaning and usage.
That is a category error, not a refutation.

2. Arabic matters: الأرض ≠ البر
In Arabic, “land” is not one word.

Two different Qur’anic terms:
Word Meaning Usage
الأرض (al-arḍ) Earth / ground / territory / world Very broad
البر (al-barr) Dry land (as opposed to sea) Geographical contrast

You conveniently ignored that I already went to quran.com and I searched for the exact word that you said - البر - not the other word you didn't like. And it returned 95 results, not 13.
But, since you don't seem to like quran.com, be my guest. Give me any link to a searchable quran, where I can enter WHICHEVER word or combination of words you wanna give me and it will show 13 results. Please.

Again. You can pick any link you want to the quran, give me any word or combination of words you want which you think means land, where if I search it, it will give me 13 results.

And if you can't do that then I think we can all agree that whatever explanations you come up with are bullshit. Because I literally make it as easiy as humanly possible for you to prove your point, by letting you choose the link and letting you choose the word even - and you will still fail to give me a link where I can get 13 hits as a search result.

You know what? I will make it even more easy for you. I will even let you tell me multiple words to search for and we can add them up, in case you wanna argue that there is multiple versions of the word or whatever. You can tell me one word, or multiple words, or combinations of words, and any link you want - just make it SOMEHOW that the search result will be 13 hits of the word. SOME. HOW.
Pick:
Any word you want
or
combination of words
or
multiple words with their search results added together

Ok, you know what? Let's make it even MORE EASY for you
I will even allow you to substract the search results of certain words, so you can
Give me any word you want
Or
combination of words
Or
substract certain hits from the equation
or
add certain words to the equation

and

you can give me any link you want

PLEASE just make it so somehow we can get the 13 in the search results, in any way that is somehow humanly possible, even if we use any trick that we can possibly use. SOMEHOW make the search result be 13 hit. PLEASE. ANY LINK YOU WANT. ANY WORD OR WORDS OR ADDITION OR SUBSTRACTION YOU WANT. ANYTHING. ANYTHING AT ALL.

You know what, let's make it EVEN MORE SIMPLE. Give me anything you want and a quran link and make the search result be 13 hits. ANYTHING YOU WANT. PLEASE I BEG YOU SENPAI PLEASE IN THE NAME OF ALLAH, JESUS AND ALL THE ANGELS IN THE SKY JUST MAKE THE SEARCH RESULT BE 13 IN SOME WAY, I DON'T EVEN CARE HOW. I BEG YOU SENPAI. I KISS YOUR FEET. I WORSHIP YOUR EXISTANCE. DO ANYTHING YOU WANT. DO VOODOO MAGIC IF YOU WANT. JUST MAKE IT SOMEHOW RETURN 13 AS A SEARCH RESULT, I BEG YOU. PLEASE.

The result of searching البر on quran.com returns 95 hits, not 13 (screenshot attached).
Again, provide me any link you want, give me any word or combination of words you want, and let the search result be 13 hits. You will fail.

Sumzero wrote: 23 Dec 2025, 14:29
The word “land” (Arabic: البر / al-barr or الأرض / al-arḍ) is counted 13 times

here is one of the many links you can find online for the original alkoran. Just search for the arabic words I have mentioned before: https://quran.com/pt

I did what you said senpai. I searched the word you gave me, in arabic, on the website you gave me, and it won't return 13 hits senpai. What did I do wrong? Oh my gaaaaaawwwdd. Is the page broken??
Senpai what shall I do senpai. Maybe if I kiss your feet and beg Allah for forgiveness it will show 13? Maybe? I am desperate senpai please help. I really need to see the number 13 somehow PLEASE I BEG YOU SENPAI.

Vincent wrote: 24 Dec 2025, 15:11 The result of searching البر on quran.com returns 95 hits, not 13 (screenshot attached).
Again, provide me any link you want, give me any word or combination of words you want, and let the search result be 13 hits. You will fail.

I didnt respond to that claim because Its fucking retarded and lazily control F'ing has a glaring issue any serious person would realize.
Ctrl + F is matching the letter sequence “البر” inside many different words, not counting the Qur’anic word “البر” as an independent lexical item. Obviously

It simply highlights any place where the letters:

ا ل ب ر

appear in that order, anywhere inside the text.


Here is a table of examples that Ctrl + F will count (but linguists and any person who can read arabic will NOT):



---------

I will send every individual citation where it is used as its own indipendent word instead of a letter sequence inside other words or equivalent lexical item


1. Qur’an 5:96

ٱلْبَرِّ

“…lawful for you is the game of the sea … and its food as provision for you and the travelers, but forbidden is the game of the land (ٱلْبَرِّ)…”

2. Qur’an 6:59

ٱلْبَرِّ

“…He knows whatever is on the land (ٱلْبَرِّ) and in the sea…”

3. Qur’an 6:63

ٱلْبَرِّ

“Who saves you from the darknesses of the land (ٱلْبَرِّ) and the sea…”

4. Qur’an 6:97

ٱلْبَرِّ

“…that you may be guided through the darknesses of the land (ٱلْبَرِّ) and the sea…”

5. Qur’an 10:22

ٱلْبَرِّ

“It is He who enables you to travel on the land (ٱلْبَرِّ) and the sea…”

6. Qur’an 17:67

ٱلْبَرِّ

“…but when He delivers you to the land (ٱلْبَرِّ), you turn away…”

7. Qur’an 17:68

ٱلْبَرِّ

“Do you feel secure that He will not cause the land (ٱلْبَرِّ) to swallow you…?”

8. Qur’an 17:70

ٱلْبَرِّ

“…and We carried them on the land (ٱلْبَرِّ) and the sea…”

9. Qur’an 20:77

ٱلْبَرِّ

“…strike for them a dry path (earth/land) in the sea (طَرِيقًا فِي ٱلْبَحْرِ يَبَسًا)”

10. Qur’an 27:63

ٱلْبَرِّ

“…Who guides you in the darknesses of the land (ٱلْبَرِّ) and the sea…?”

11. Qur’an 29:65

ٱلْبَرِّ

“…when He delivers them to the land (ٱلْبَرِّ), they associate others with Him.”

12. Qur’an 30:41

ٱلْبَرِّ

“Corruption has appeared on the land (ٱلْبَرِّ) and in the sea…”

13. Qur’an 31:32

ٱلْبَرِّ

“…but when He delivers them to the land (ٱلْبَرِّ), some of them are moderate…”

Look. I will tell you now how science works. You made a claim. Now, for this claim to be accepted, it must be possible to independantly verify it. WHICH YOU DID. YOU FUCKING LYING SNAKE SAID YOURSELF "Just search on quran.com". WHAT WOULD BE THE FUCKING POINT TO SEARCH THERE IF THE RESULT IS NOT 13 HITS. YOU FUCKING LYING SNAKE. You can have a lot of shit in your brain and type that shit on the forums, people need to be able to verify it. You can't just say: "These are the only 13 occurrences of the word, trust me bruh!"

I must be able to verify myself what you said. If people can't verify themselves what you said then your claim is WORTHLESS.

That is why I said:
Give me any sequence you want, literally any combination of words and letters you want, in any language of the world, and a link to search in, and let the result be 13 hits. AND YOU DID SAY GO TO QURAN.COM AND SEARCH FOR IT, WHICH I DID, AND THE RESULT IS NOT 13 HITS YOU FUCKING LYING SNAKE.

YOU FUCKING FAILED!! YOU'RE A FUCKING FAILURE BRO!!

And what pisses me off is that you think I am so stupid that I will believe this stupid shit.

Literally, any other person on earth could do what I asked for. Any person. If they claim in any language of the world that a certain word occurrs x amount of times in a document, they would be able to provide a link to that document and let others search for the word to verify the claim. Anyone could do that, in any language of the fucking world. Only you fail.

SO, did you just fail at a kindergarten level task, or are you treating me like I am stupid and I will just believe a stupid lie?
Because I think it's the second one, and that pisses me off.

You know what, I am so pissed off about this shit, that you claim the word land occurs 13 times in the quran, and you can't even give me any fucking link in the entire world where I can verify that claim myself. That pisses me off that you think people are SO COLOSSALLY STUPID to believe that, that I am not going to enter into an organization that treats its members like retards. You can fuck off with that. You just lie to my face, and other people's faces. You have no shame. You have no respect for anyone that you dare to tell such a brazen lie which anyone can easily find out is wrong. I gave you the easiest task in the world, I said give me ANY link, ANY combination of characters you want, and let me search it and let the result be 13 hits. And you failed. You lied to my face.

So fuck off IPF. I'm not gonna become a member of an organization that treats people like they are retards.

Sumzero wrote: 23 Dec 2025, 14:29 here is one of the many links you can find online for the original alkoran. Just search for the arabic words I have mentioned before: https://quran.com/pt

FUCKING SNAKE MAN! HE TELLS ME TO SEARCH ON QURAN.COM AND THEN COMES UP WITH BULLSHIT EXPLANATIONS FOR WHY THE SEARCH NOT RETURNING 13 IS NOT A VALID ARGUMENT!
THEN WHY DID YOU TELL ME TO SEARCH THERE?

FUCKING LYING SNAKE MAN!!

HE THINKS WE ARE RETARDS!!

I hate when people treat others like retards, especially here where supposedly we are a brotherhood. And you treat me like I am retarded and I will just fall for this bullshit. Then you tell me to fucking verify it myself, I do it, and then you DARE to fucking gaslight me and claim the result is not valid. What a fucking snake man. I am so done with Islam. This amount of disrespect is just unparalleled. Fuck islam, fuck the IPF. I am out of this.
ABSOLUTELY PATHETIC!!! ABSOLUTELY PATHETIC MAN!!! How dare you treat your bros like trash like this? You think we are all stupid?

Can't even provide ONE fucking link in the entire fucking world where any search result would match the amount of times you claim the words appear.

Vincent wrote: 24 Dec 2025, 22:30 Look. I will tell you now how science works. You made a claim. Now, for this claim to be accepted, it must be possible to independantly verify it. WHICH YOU DID. YOU FUCKING LYING SNAKE SAID YOURSELF "Just search on quran.com". WHAT WOULD BE THE FUCKING POINT TO SEARCH THERE IF THE RESULT IS NOT 13 HITS. YOU FUCKING LYING SNAKE. You can have a lot of shit in your brain and type that shit on the forums, people need to be able to verify it. You can't just say: "These are the only 13 occurrences of the word, trust me bruh!"

I must be able to verify myself what you said. If people can't verify themselves what you said then your claim is WORTHLESS.

That is why I said:
Give me any sequence you want, literally any combination of words and letters you want, in any language of the world, and a link to search in, and let the result be 13 hits. AND YOU DID SAY GO TO QURAN.COM AND SEARCH FOR IT, WHICH I DID, AND THE RESULT IS NOT 13 HITS YOU FUCKING LYING SNAKE.

YOU FUCKING FAILED!! YOU'RE A FUCKING FAILURE BRO!!

And what pisses me off is that you think I am so stupid that I will believe this stupid shit.

Literally, any other person on earth could do what I asked for. Any person. If they claim in any language of the world that a certain word occurrs x amount of times in a document, they would be able to provide a link to that document and let others search for the word to verify the claim. Anyone could do that, in any language of the fucking world. Only you fail.

SO, did you just fail at a kindergarten level task, or are you treating me like I am stupid and I will just believe a stupid lie?
Because I think it's the second one, and that pisses me off.

You know what, I am so pissed off about this shit, that you claim the word land occurs 13 times in the quran, and you can't even give me any fucking link in the entire world where I can verify that claim myself. That pisses me off that you think people are SO COLOSSALLY STUPID to believe that, that I am not going to enter into an organization that treats its members like retards. You can fuck off with that. You just lie to my face, and other people's faces. You have no shame. You have no respect for anyone that you dare to tell such a brazen lie which anyone can easily find out is wrong. I gave you the easiest task in the world, I said give me ANY link, ANY combination of characters you want, and let me search it and let the result be 13 hits. And you failed. You lied to my face.

So fuck off IPF. I'm not gonna become a member of an organization that treats people like they are retards.

skill issue